California Governor Gavin Newsom opened up about a potential 2028 presidential bid, his relationship with Vice President Kamala Harris, and the personal calculus behind seeking the White House during an extensive fly-fishing interview with CNN anchor Jake Tapper in Montana.
A Conversation on the Bitterroot River
The setting was unconventional by political journalism standards: waist-deep in the frigid Bitterroot River on the Bitterroot Springs Ranch near Stevensville, Montana. Tapper, who pitched the “Out of Office” longform concept to several political figures including Vice President JD Vance and Secretary of State Marco Rubio, wanted to move beyond studio interviews. The goal was to discuss childhoods, parents, tougher moments, and biggest successes in an environment where the subject felt comfortable. Republican Senator Thom Tillis of North Carolina has also agreed to participate in the series.
Despite Tapper’s self-described “horrible fly-fishing form,” the hours spent driving around the ranch and standing in the water loosened up the typically polished politician. The conversation ranged across decades of public life, touching on Newsom’s dyslexia, failed first marriage, past affair, his mother’s assisted suicide, a close friend’s intervention, the governor’s race, COVID-19 challenges, and confrontations with President Donald Trump.
Newsom on Harris and the 2028 Field
Top of mind was whether Newsom runs for president in 2028. A key variable is who else enters the race, specifically former Vice President Kamala Harris, a fellow San Francisco Democrat.
“I don’t know if she runs, but we’ll see,” Newsom told me. “I wouldn’t run if she ran.”
Tapper noted frank surprise at the definitive statement.
“Why would I?” he said. “I wouldn’t do that to her. I wouldn’t do it to me. … I won’t waste everyone’s time. Who needs that?”
Newsom elaborated on the political mechanics of such a scenario.
“First of all, electorally it’s a gift from God for everybody else,” he explained. “They’d enjoy the hell out of it. Mutual assured destruction. It services no greater good. Why would I do this if I wasn’t trying to serve some greater good? There would be no upside whatsoever.”
When pressed on the counterargument—that Harris ran in 2019 without reaching 2020 and lost the 2024 general election—Newsom conceded the point but stood firm.
“That would be the case you’d make,” he acknowledged. “Pretty good one, actually. That’s objectively true. But I know what that means. I know her base of supporters, I know her friends, the (Venn) diagram on that is just pure crossover … I wouldn’t do that to people. I wouldn’t put them in that position … Every other Democrat is praying for that, and every other Republican is gonna pray for that. And that’s just not gonna happen.”
The ‘Why’ Behind a Presidential Run
How does a politician decide to run for the highest office? Newsom described an ongoing personal process.
“I have no experience in this process, so I’m going through it,” Newsom said.
Tapper noted some observers wished Newsom had challenged President Joe Biden in 2024.
“I wasn’t ready,” he said. “First of all, I wouldn’t do that. And second, if I did, I would have gotten crushed because I didn’t have a why. You don’t have big enough why, then you don’t belong there.”
“It’s shocking how many presidential candidates can’t answer their why. Like, shocking,” he continued. He said he’d seen “leading candidates over the last few cycles that are there for the wrong reasons. Or no reason at all, which is the worst. So, you’ve got to have a big enough why.”
Family as the Final Veto
After reflecting on his personal and professional journey, Newsom signaled a shift in perspective.
“I am not screwing anything up anymore, man. I know what matters in life. I got four kids, it’s the only thing that matters to me.”
His wife and school-aged children hold veto power over a White House run.
“If they’re not on board, that’s a non-starter.”
Meeting the Moment
Back in the flowing water, checking his hook and casting upstream at signs of reluctant fish, Newsom outlined the signs that might actually make him run.
“You just have to meet the moment. You got to be honest with yourself. Do you represent the zeitgeist in the moment, or are you wasting everybody’s time?” he said.
“I’m not here to make a point. I want to make the difference, and you can make a difference in a lot of ways in life.”
The full “Out of Office” report with Gavin Newsom streams Tuesday on CNN All Access starting at 8 a.m. ET.
